However, I can't seem to figure out how to loop WITH delay. Not possible with the timebender? My memory man could do it, but I hated the hum it produced and how it would "click" when I engaged it. The looping sort of sucked on the memory man, but I feel it was easier to do (didn't always come out GOOD though) and you could loop with delay active...
First, what an awesome site! Thanks a lot. Looks good, features are awesome, I'm talking about the website, not the pedal.
Can you offer a blank template of the front panel for saving our own settings? (kind of like you have in the audio clips section)....what would be awesome, but I don't have much computer experience so it may be too much to ask, but some sort of interactive front panel image so that one could save an image of the settings in folder on the computer. So if you were going to be somewhere, you could either printout a bunch or carry them on a thumb drive.
I am talking visual only, I dont expect it to interact with the pedal obviously.
When I got the pedal I was hoping to use the reverse function more. Am I doing something wrong, or is it wrong to expect that I could play a signal through it, turn the mix to "dry off", and expect it would just play continuous reversed audio? For example, hook up an mp3 player and a whole song played backwards through the timebender. Possible? (as i write this I think I am realizing it's impossible, but I 'll ask anyway)
Hi PawPaw - Yes a template would be a great idea. We'll try to put one together. The interactive thing might be a bit too much work. Remember we are just doing this on the side. As far as the reverse delay goes, your intuition was correct that it is impossible to do what you want to do. This is a real time pedal so it can only reverse relatively short segments of audio (up to 5 sec). I'm glad you like the site!
Just bought a time bender and am trying to get a good clean rotating speaker simulation. Think Stevie Ray Vaughn's Lenny. I have been experimenting with settings and get close but seem to end up with too much echo.
You can get a fairly decent rotating speaker simulation by using the TimeBender's modulation. For a "fast" setting I typically use:
Delay Type: digital
Delay Time: 10 ms
Pattern 1 (single)
The Mix pot then acts sort of like a Depth control on a chorus, and the Modulation range acts as the Speed. The Repeats control gives it some feedback - too much sounds unnatural but a bit can emphasize the chorus-y effect.
This is especially realistic using the stereo outputs.
I tried your suggestion and it wasnt quite what I was looking for but it got me closer than I was getting on my own. I ended up using envelope, at 200ms, mod at 0, and the repeats around 10:00. This way there is less pitch shift. The mix still acts like depth but I can use the delay time for a speed change.
Thanks for the help it pointed me in the right direction.
Hi JJ716 - The Boss EV-5 works fine with the timebender. Personally, I am not a big fan of the EV-5. I had one once and it wasn't very reliable. It also felt cheap and slid around too much. I use an Ernie Ball Volume pedal as an expression pedal with the timebender, which works very well IMO. If you do get an Ernie Ball, just make sure you get the 100 kOhm one designed for guitars. They also have a 25 kOhm version designed for keyboards etc which will not work with the Timebender.
great site guys.
Is there a footswitch or exp. pedal configuration that will allow me to turn on and off the pedal? I want to have the pedal in a stool near me so i can change settings while playing an still be able to switch it on and of using a food pedal.
Also do you know what the "mode" button of the fs3x switch does when conected to timebebder?
thnx for your help.
Hi yannis. Yes the TB supports both a footswitch and an expression pedal. From the manual:
"Connect an optional 3-button FS3X footswitch to this input to step through the memory locations. On the FS3X, the right button moves you up one memory location, and the center button moves you down one location. When Looper is selected, the left button takes you directly to overdubbing. Connect or disconnect the optional FS3X footswitch only when the TimeBenderTM is turned off."
Sounds like YAN wants to be able to turn on/off the timebender with something other than the left footswitch. I can think of 2 possible ways. With an exp pdl, set the toe position how you want the delay and the heel position to have the delay basically off, maybe the cleanest would be the mix knob full CCW. Not sure how true of a bypass this would be though... Other thought would be to have a "dry" memory location (same settings as the heel position in the first idea would have), but it would be a pain to turn on and off and you lose some memory location functionality.
I have recently bought a Time Bender. I also bought a Boss expression/volume pedal FV500L which will not work with the time bender as it is for keyboards. The only pedal I can swap the boss for is the boss FV50L volume pedal. Does anyone know if this will act as an expression pedal with the Time Bender?
Hi AJ - Yeah, as you have found out, low impedence Expression/volume pedals designed for keyboards will not work with the timebender. The FV50L that you can swap is also low impedence and thus will not work either. Although I have not tried them, the Boss high impedence pedals (FV500H and FV50H) should both work.
It's me again. The blabman "Honch"! I wonder if there's a possibility out there to use any alternative power supply other than the one supplied? Since it is 9v at 1300mA it's very difficult to find any of those "bunk" power supplies that carries that much current, i e 1300mA. Voodo Labs Power Plus 2 and similar reaches at most 1200mA. T-rex, Gator or the rest seems way too weak in current draw.
BUT! Voodo Labs say also that most manufacturers lists current draw in an upper max or "within safe" limit, i e it can be possible to run TimeBender at 1200mA without ANY problems, noise or hum. They have had no problems with running current heavy pedals from Line6 and so on. Since I have this on a pedalboard it would be nice to skip the wall wart altogether.
Have anyone of you tried alternative power supplies with same results as the original one?
Hi Honch - I have not tried to use a different power supply from the one that came with my timebender, and unfortunately I don't know enough about it to give you an answer. Maybe you should e-mail Digitech customer service - or have you already done that?
I have used it with both line level and instrument level inputs with good success. There is no need to adjust the input level. There is just more headroom for instrument level, which is actually necessary with some of the extra hot pickups out there these days.
The dry signal path is analog in all modes except for envelope, reverse and looper when pitch shifting is used (ie looper is analog too when you don't have pitch shifting employed).
Thanks for the reply.
One more question, any suggestions for a preset or settings that will do a wow and flutter for the tape delay? I feel like the unit will do it but I'm just not finding it.
I have tried turning down the tone knob and modulating delay but its not quite what I'm looking for.
I am really interested in this pedal, but I want to know if it (or some other product) can overcome a problem I am having. I currently use a Boss Loopstation RC-2 for looping. The main problem with it is that once I get a loop playing, I cannot adjust the tempo at which it plays. For example, say I record a loop while playing, then let the loop play while I solo over it. If the tempo of the band varies at all, my loop will be out of synch. I have tried using an external pedal to tap a tempo, but this seems to only work when a loop is NOT playing. Does the Timebender share this problem? It drives me nuts!
Hi Ken - You have run into the number one problem of using loopers with a band. Almost all loopers, including the looper on the Timebender will suffer from this problem. You will notice that most bands that user loopers as part of their sound make sure that they get a solid beat with the looper to start with and then play it so loud that everyone else in the band (even the drummer ) has to follow the looper. I've heard the Electrix repeater will follow an external beat source in the loop, so you might want to try that. Unfortunately I don't think Electrix is around anymore so you will have to get one off eBay or something.
Hi Rudy - You can get flutter using the modulation, but wow is little harder. You can also try hooking up an expression pedal with the modulation settings different in the heel and toe. The expression pedal will then smoothly sweep both modulation speed and amount.
Timebender, I've mailed digitech support - and of course - they recommend using this adapter and nothing else, not even "bunk" power supplies at all. But of course, they have to stear clear of any warranty issues should there be anything wrong with the pedal. Only if they're sure that included adapter has been used, they can go on with warranty repair. Nothing wrong with that really. They don't reveal exact numbers for when the pedal's supposed to work anyway. in MilliAmpere. 1,3 is a lot. For a pedal that is.
I just wondered if anyone tried something else to run it from.
Just a thought about the input level on the timebender. Care should be taken what is put before the input stage on the timebender. If you - say - have a distortion or boost box before, and drive that one up too much there's no way of telling if timebender has taken too much of it, until the timebender starts to crack in sound. It sounds like you're snapping your fingernails together, like ugly digital clip.
I don't know if it is the analog input, or the A/D converter that can't handle it, but I think some boost pedals and distortion puts in high frequencies (for no reason) that can make the A/D converter behave badly. I have a KLON centaur which put the timebender into some weird mode. I didn't know first what it was, until I recorded the signal from it onto a computer with a soundcard that has excessively high input rate, and detected that the KLON put out frequencies well above 20 Khz which you can't hear anyway. A couple of peaks there where found, and some A/D filters has these frequencies exactly in the borderline for where it can't filter or track those ones out of the conversion, so aliasing is present in the sound. And digital crackling. This seems to be present regardless of level that is put in to the delay. On the TimeBender at least.
Other delay pedals, such as the T-rex replica, ducked these frequencies perfectly. Now I put the Klon before the input stage of an amp (tube), and just run the TimeBender through FX loop, and then these frequencies are cut out anyway at an earlier stage.
So it may be so that either the input amp or A/D converter on the TimeBender is a little too weak to take care and filter out some high level and high frequency signals entering the circuit.
In this case, I think it's the KLON centaurs fault. They ought to build an analog filter before the signals leave the pedal. You can't say that anything up there will affect the sound in any way at all. Such high frequencies CAN destroy other equipment as well, that is not digital at all. Speaker tweeters and so on. But since that pedal is supposed to be only used before an input stage on a tube amp, this seems to be a no big deal.
I just got my Timebender yesterday and so far it is awesome! It can do amazing things. I've already decided I want to get an expression pedal to fully utilize it. I've seen some discussions on here about which expression pedals work with the Timebender. So far, the BOSS EV-5, FV500H and FV50H have been listed as "working", as they are all "high" impedence, as opposed to the FV50L and other "L" models which are low impedence. Also, 100 kOhm volume pedals like the Ernie Ball were also mentioned. Has anyone tried to compile a more complete list? What about the Boss FV-100? Any others that are known to work?
I don't like the Ernie Balls actually. Just a personal preference but that "thread" or "wire" that needs to be changed ever so often bugs me a lot. I wonder if there are optoelectrical volume pedals out there that'll woek with the timebenderdelay.
Still, no one has adressed the problem of when freezing the delay in all other modes and "straight" strums. Not even Digitech. It seems that no one has experienced this, or think that it is not a problem that is worth adressing.
Well, it is to me actually, because I use it a lot.
I just got a timebender the other day and this website has been very helpful so thank you! I have a problem with mine though and was wondering if anyone could help. Whenever i try to use my expression pedal, i put my settings i want in my heel position, that put it to the toe position and make the changes i want. The thing is when i have that all set when i bring it back to the heel its a different setting than i began with, making the effects inconsistent and i cant get the sounds i want. I have a line6 expression pedal so that may be the problem, or i could just be doing it wrong. I calibrated the expression pedal just like your video says and did all the steps the same. Please help, its a great pedal and getting the expression pedal to work would make it even better. Thanks
Hi Charlie - I have asked around and nobody around here has a line 6 expression pedal, so I can't say for sure what is wrong. However, I did find this doc on the line 6 site http://line6.com/community/docs/DOC-1472 which states that it is a 10 kOhm passive mono linear taper pot. If the expression pedal is mono (i.e. tip sleeve only), then you need at least 250 kOhm for it to work well with the timebender. I use an Ernie Ball Jr Volume pedal, which is 250 kOhm and it works great. It is a bit pricey though, and some people don't like the mechanism (see Honch's comment). We should really compile a list of expression pedals that work well the timebender. Anyone reading this that has used an expression pedal with the timebender that has worked well should leave a comment stating the type of EP, and I will put together a list.
Okay thanks, i figured it was something wrong with the pedal because i was following the video and manual exactly the same. I think I'm going to get the pedal you suggested, i have a gift certificate so I'm willing to drop a good price for it if it works. Thanks for the help!
Thank you TimeBender. I actually do think that using a "high quality" volume pedal like Ernie Ball, Morley, George Dennis, Goodrich et al is a bit overkill/waste since what you really need is an EXPRESSION pedal with just one wire out. Also, using optoelectric circuit and TrueBypass volume pedals seems a bit overkill, since you really need one wire out only. Whatever TrueByPass means on a volume pedal. It's either in the chain or it's not. If a pedal "sucks tone" doesn't really matter in this scenario here. You can very well shop around for cheaper ones. You don't need the smooth sound travel of an optoelectric volume pedal, and input or tuner outputs, as there is on some volume pedals.
But what I think is REALLY important is to use a pedal that has the ability to STAY in middle position or anywhere else, like heel position without drifting a bit at all. Jim Dunlop makes one of these, VOLUME pedal that is.
Expression pedals like Line6, M-Audio, and Boss's EV5 and similar, is a bit like playing keyboards, you have to have your foot on it all of the time, when doing volume swells on organ etc. Very few STAYS in a position that you have found with the pedal. I do think we should recommend EXPRESSION pedals instead of volume pedals, but here's the caveat. They're made for keyboards - mostly - and has the wrong pot value accordingly.
It seems that no matter what you turn to, you have to make a compromise or swap the pot out entirely. Also, Morley flatline pedals with a "shallow travel" range makes it harder to nail in a smooth and even travel from top to bottom. We need a pedal that has a large physical angle travel to have the largest range in delay time sweeps or whatever you set the TimeBender to do.
Hi Honch, You're right that the Ernie Ball and other pedals you mentioned do have features that are not required/used when they are used as an expression pedal with the timebender. When using these volumes pedals with the TB, they act just like an ordinary expression pedal. There is no guitar signal going through the pedal like there is when you use it as a volume pedal and thus true bypass is a non-issue, and of course the tuner output is not used.
However, the reason I like the Ernie ball Jr is precisely because it stays where you set it and it accurately goes to the correct heel and toe position after you set it. I have tried a few of the cheaper plastic expression pedals like Boss's EV5, and frankly after using the Ernie Ball Jr, they are just unacceptable to me. Too light and flimsy and they do not always return to their correct values. I agree that it would be nice to find a high quality expression pedal that has solid construction, a large angle of swing, accurate heel/toe return, and enough control that you can put it in a midway position fairly accurately, but for now the Ernie Ball is working fine. If you find something though, let us all know!
I am very interested in the Timebender, but would love to know how well it works with non-guitar instruments before buying one. Acoustic and electric cello, handrums with deep voice-bass udu and djembe--do you know how the TB handles signals lower than the guitar range?
I'd settle for a clean, recordable echo for everything, but would love to have the octave down option for the cellos.
Hi TJ, That would be pretty cool using it with a cello. We have not tried that but we have used it with a dilruba (search this site for dilruba and you will find a video), and probably more important to you, with a bass guitar. We find that the shifting on the timebender works pretty well down to note 36 (i.e. C below the lowest string on a standard EADGBE tuned guitar), which I think is the lowest note on a cello. So it should work fine. But you might want to try it before you buy it, or buy it from somewhere with a 30 day return policy. Note that the only issue is with the pitch shifting part of the TB. All other features will work great with all instruments.
Thank you TB. It would be great if EB released an Expression pedal only. As far as I know, they're only volume pedals at the moment. I used to use an EB waaay back, but the string kept on crapping out on me, and the volume, live. It was used only for swells and country steel guitar things though. Then I went for opto, because I didn't want a crackling pot either. But it had it's problems with keeping the signal straight and altering the sound. It seems there's nowhere to turn. Mainly I think it's because there's never any set standard for controllers or foot pedals, regarding pot values, and input/output range. Especially polarity, latch or momentary, stereo or mono-jack switches. Each brand has their own "standard".
At least DigiTech themselves should put one or two "expression" pedals or volume pedals out but they haven't as far as I know. If they have, it's full of FX anyway, like PitchBend and other Wah type effects.
Also, one major gripe I have with all expression pedals, volumes and wahs is that they never make them with cable cover protection, i e just a thin wall of plastic, or whatever, that surrounds the pedal, so any cable won't get caught in between the pedals movement range. As a guitarist - live - you tend to move around, and if you're into rocknroll you tend to jump around a lot, with the cable getting hooked in all places. Couldn't be that hard to make, or at least to make it an option, like a convertible car. Cab up or cab down...
TJ on cello and octave:
When in looper mode on the timebender, you can turn the MusiQ-knob and use it as a pitch shifter. The range it does are limited, but it's - normally - used to put a bass line into whatever loop you're using. However - of course - you don't need to press the start button to record any loop at all. Just play this octave below. And you don't need to turn the wet/dry knob at all. It's heard an octave below anyway and none of the direct signal.
Of course, when using the wet/dry mix only to whatever in the octave range, you can play echoes to it, with direct signal an octave below (even two I think... not sure though) or above and anything in between. No direct clean signal is leaking through, if you don't want to.
I have already had female singers singing into it, creating human beat-box things, and whatnot with octave ups, octave belows and anything in between. Hilarious fun.
9. MORLEY Volume EOV, PVO+ = Optical, active, runs on battery, mono, audio taper. high impedance. NOTE: May work with limitations!
10. LEAD FOOT LFV-1 Volume = Webshop Thomanns own brand, may not be available in USA. Audio taper, mono, high impedance. The cheapest one around though. .
As we are forced to use volume pedals, with their extra inputs outputs not required for TimeBender, I think the BOSS, or the ROCKTRON wins in the teoretical dept, with Ernie Ball coming in at a close third/second. The Boss is for huge-feeted persons... :-). Both these double-function pedals MUST contain double pots or doublethrow pots one each with different values. One for keyboards ctrl MIDI, and one for guitar only. Now, it's only up to you to browse around the net, especially reviews for these pedals at Harmony Central and other places, to see if they're up to snuff and if they're to YOUR taste and feel. Of course, if I forgot some brand/model (which I really do think I did!) please fill me in!
Hi Mats - Thanks for starting the list - that is great.
One important clarification though. There are several expression pedals that will work (Yamaha and Roland for example). It is only the volume pedal that has to be a mono plug, and when it is a mono plug volume pedal (or a mono plug expression pedal for that matter), the impedence must be > 100 kOhms. That is why volume pedals designed for keyboards with 25 kOhm impedence will not work.
However, ANY expression pedal, whether it is low impedence or high impedence will work as long as the cable is TRS (i.e. three bands with tip, ring and sleeve).
Ok, then, my bad. This is because I don't find any pot values on any expression pedals. Or to which standard they confirm to. Then some other people may do the other half of the list. Also, I don't find this information in the TImeBender manual, only the mono plug and passive one and that it should be any volume pedal.
There must be some expression pedals that doesn't work at all, in the end. I am not sure but some manufacturers (third party) are telling "will not work with Yamaha and Roland keyboards" but they work with all the rest. Has to be with polarity or impedance or both. Some use their TRS reverse, like RTS - or so I have heard. I think KORG gave up on those pedals, and let the war over to Roland and Yamaha...
All I can tell is that there isn't any confirmed standard for such pedals, even in regular footswitch. Granted, mono cable is signal and ground pretty much carved in stone, but as fast as you use a stereo plug, they can reverse the other two as much as they want leaving ground intact. Same with momentary, latch, and polarity. Active or passive. Or just "sustain" pedals for MIDI keyboards. They all do it "their" way.
That's the best thing with standards. There are so many to choose from!
If we should "hedge our bets" I would give my five cents to the BOSS one or the ROCKTRON Hex one, then we can try out both expression and volume. Either of them should work. And if they don't we can use them on other instruments for other purposes. Or change cables and swap their function on the pedalboards sometimes. Eventually they WILL function as a volume pedal no matter what.
It would even be possible that there is a difference when pluggin the "volume pedal output" to the TimeBender vs the "Expression" output from either the Boss or Rocktron. The Boss one seems to have more travel though. There may or may not be a difference.
If only Ernie Ball was as great with their string system as the rest of their build. Have had numerous situations where the cable got stuck between the pedal travel and damaged the string and thing in there. Only if it was as easy as changing guitar strings, but it isn't. They do have the smoothest travel, but I find opto electronics just as smooth. I have yet to hear anyone bad mouth that BOSS though. Rocktron does have a few caveats but by and large, good. Above average but not more.
It's in the middle of the night and I have borrowed a few pedals to try out. The BOSS VF-500H does not work in expression mode, no matter what cables I am runnig it with. Stereo RTS, TRS, whatever. However, output regular volume pedal it works fine. It takes a while for it to "hook" on.
Expression works flawlessly on any controller MIDI keyboard I have. Smooth travel. But still, its seems like theres nothing happening in the heel position. Like On third travel through, the TimeBender shows shifting of delay time, and I have calibrated the pedal as much as I can. THe other is the cheap plastic Proel which works as a volume only. Good too, but don't gig with it. Plastic pedals are for home and studio. NExt thing is the KIm Dunlop DVP1. Work as a charm BUT, if any pedal should be made heavier than others it's the volume and wah. Dunlop is easy to throw around and trip over. In that "heavy" deaprtment, Boss wins, and second Ernie Ball...
Still, nothing is quite 100 percent right.... wonder why that is. Have different cables so those are not a problem.
About the expression thing. It says nothing abot that in the manual, and I can't get the timebender to work with expression output from the Boss. At all.
Oh it seems that I am the only one around here that cares, at the moment. Tried a few other dedicated expression pedals, ev5, Yamaha fc9 and so on, and they all behave very peculiar when hooked up to the TimeBender. The delay time raises at first, then goes midway, and then goes back again to its starting (heel) value. Never hit the max (toe) value which I've set. Even though the pedal hits rock bottom at toe position. And they are calibrated as good as it gets.
I really enjoy your site and have benefitted greatly from finding it; thanks so much for taking the time to publish this information. Here's my question: can the Timebender be set to make a Holdsworthian-type chorus sound?
As the TimeBender can be used for straight up pitch effects by setting the delay time to it's minimum, what happens when setting a heel to no effect and toe to pitch +12? Does it behave like a Whammy pedal?
I would like to add, if you have a suitable expression pedal, whammy effects CAN be created, though not with the same efficiency and smoothness as a real dedicated Whammy pedal. Settings the delay to minimum you have to accept a slight delay in every note, adn the way up or down is pretty much jagged, but it can be done. The pitch shift is - sort of - done with the delay time, and will sound a bit off on the travel way.
Is there anyone who've tried this HOLD thing, that I had problem with way back?
I e, when the pattern mode is set to anything but one strum, the HOLD function doesn't keep that pattern at all. It drifts slightly, and after a while, it's totally out of sync. I mean, if I press the hold at the wrong time, I may do that, but then it should hold/lock and sound "out of sync" from the start on, and not drift from it's zero points so to speak.
anyone else experienced this yet?
I have tried the digitech forum, but come on, I have never ever seen any forum suck as big time as that one. And the support didn't answer back. 4 months ago now.
Hey, I'm really wanting to get the timebender for some cool post-rock and ambient sounds, the only thing is i would be using it with a bass guitar. I have a solo setup currently with a jamman looper and a few other pedals and I want a nice versitile delay. Now to my question, does the timebender have any tracking issues in the bass frequency range? Do the harmonies come though alright? I have a six string bass, and most of the delayed playing is going to be coming out much higher on the neck as I like to keep the bass freqencies really clean. I'm sure this'll effect its tracking, but I just want some reassurance.
Hi Travis. I don't have a bass here so I can't say for sure, but I think it will work for the higher notes on a bass. Im not sure what the cut off is, but I read somewhere that it doesn't track well for the lower notes on a bass. Maybe someone with a bass can chime in and let us know the lowest note that it works for? One thing for sure is that it will work for all notes found on a guitar and a little lower I expect.
I own a bass and tried it the other day, just due to this posting. A 4 string headless. regular tuning. I think a 5 string (or 6) with low B will cause the delay to trigger wrong when having it's pitch shifting capabilities work. I did tune down my e-string, although this is not really the proper way to do it. Since the e-string tuned down to b causes to much stray harmonics and inharmonics the digitech tracks a little askew. But then I put samples through it. Samples of a bass. Didn't work THAT good. I've noticed this too, when using heavy whammy bar work, and when low e-string on a regular guitar is pitched down way low by the whammy bar. Then it tracks poorly. Your Mileage May Vary.
On my bass, regular tuning. Down to open A-string it tracked properly and didn't wave in any of the modes, 5ths sevenths octaves, or even an octave down settings. But I think using 2 octaves below, caused it to wreak havoc, unless you played on the g-string high up. Open low e-string worked at some settings and some not. At some settings it was more noticeable than others. I think the "pure" limit is the open a-string on a bass guitar. To be on the safe side. Also it worked - ALL OF IT - tracked better on bass when the tone kob was turned down, i e not as much treble. But still the open A seemed to be its limit. I wouldn't recommend a low B.
Has anyone run into any excessive hum from this pedal? This is a weird one that took some time to locate. I play a Line 6 Vetta II amp, and I am running my effects pedals in the effects loop, before the power amp. This has been working great with everything, but then I started to notice a fairly loud hum when the effects loop is engaged. Through trial and error, I figured out that the TimeBender was causing the hum, but only in the following circumstances:
1. When Delay Mode is set to either Reverse or Envelope; AND
2. the Multiplier is set to all notes except half note. For some reason, when set to a half note, the hum goes away!
No other Modes have the hum. It is loud and very noticeable, even when the guitar is turned down or unplugged from the amp. The hum is no different whether I am on a clean channel or a high-gain distorted channel. I am trying to figure out if it is the amp or the pedal having the issue, but since this is the only pedal doing it and only in those modes, I'm leaning towards the pedal. I really don't want to put the pedals in front of the preamp, since they are all time-based effects, and the manual shows that putting the pedal in the effects loop is supported.
Just wanna verify if M-Audio's EX-P works with the time bender since you said: "ANY expression pedal, whether it is low impedence or high impedence will work as long as the cable is TRS (i.e. three bands with tip, ring and sleeve)."?
Hi Ken, That sounds very strange indeed. I just did a quick test with my system (timebender in the FX loop of my Vox AC30), and I don't get hum with any configuration. I often run the timebender in this config so I would have been surprised to find a problem. However, maybe there is something different about your setup. Finding hum problems can be a bit tricky sometimes. One thing to make sure is that the amp and the pedal are plugged into the same power outlet. This can often solve hum problems.
As far as getting hum only in reverse and envelope mode, that may make some sense since I think these are the only 2 modes where the dry guitar signal is not passed through as a direct analog signal. So there is a difference with these 2 modes, but I don't understand why it would cause more hum. The multiplier button dependency doesn't make any sense to me however. Sorry.
I hope you can figure this out. Anyone else with any experience here should pipe in also.
Hi Ryan, I took a quick look online but could not find the specs on the M-Audio EX-P. It should work but I can't be sure until I try it. I realize I said "ANY" in the video and in a comment, but you really should try before you buy just to make sure. If you read through this forum (which it looks like you did), you will find several posts by Mats on expression pedals and volume pedals. He didn't have much luck with Expression pedals at all, which emphasizes that you should try it first. Sorry I can't be more help.
Hi Steve, yes you can definitely get some good chorus sounds out of the timebender by setting the delay low and applying modulation. I'm not sure exactly what you are after. You will have to try it to find out for sure I think.
PS Sorry for the delayed response - I missed this one when it came in.
Ken. Your pedal or power adapter may be faulty. I have never had any problems with hum from it used like that. Try it one any other amp, friends or take it to a music store. It's the weirdest problem I've heard of ever. I mean, point 2, that certain half notes have hum but others not. That MUST be some kinda bug, and you should report it on the Digitehc forum support.
I've tried pure Expression pedals to no end. What bothers we with the TimeBender and its manual, is that the jack is labeled EXPRESSION, and the manual states A MONO PLUG ONLY 1/4" (tip/sleeve). No expression pedal I've heard or seen works with a mono plug, ONLY VOLUME PEDALS do.
Also at the spec in the manual it actually states this (exact wording below):
Expression pedal 1/4" (tip/sleeve) Recommended passive expression (volume) pedal in the 100 KOhm to 500 kOhm range.
What do they really mean with this?
They mix up the word and term Expression with Volume and use it interchangeably. Very bad idea. It's two different things, and you can't use either, and especially not a stereo plug! On the footswitch though it says (tip/ring/sleeve) which clearly indicates a stereo plug. And it works there of course.
1/4" (tip/sleeve) indicates a regular mono plug to me.
I tried some Yamaha pedal today, and the travel is great, but the timebender does not react until a third of the pedal has been pressed down. It's so to with Boss, and actually those Ernie Balls I've tried with it too. Some cheap plastic pedal from PROEL actually worked great but it's extreme settings it couldn't keep. Say if I sat the 600 ms delay on the far heel position, and 300 ms way down, when backing up again it stopped at 560 ms or something. Very shaky and not precise calibration, if you'd ask me. Boss, and EB kept their values at least.
I am still searching for the perfect pedal on this one! Next time I will have the guts to try active ones anyway, although the manual says ... "don't". Like Morleys optical ones. No one has come close to my satisfaction as of yet, regardless of price.
One thing you really should be aware of when trying out pedals to ctrl the TimeBender is if they have AUDIO TAPER pots or not. I think this is the main thing why it does not catch on and changes anything on the TB until one third of the pedal is pressed down. I will try to get hold of some Morley pedal with LINEAR pots designe for use in an amps effects loop instead. Pure Expression pedals does not have anything like that, audio or linear taper pots. Most likely linear if anything.
Matt, I will report it in the Digitech forum. There may be something wrong with my pedal. Something WORSE happened yesterday. I'm in church, playing on a very mellow song, clean signal with chorus and reverb on my amp, plus reverse delay on the Timebender. About half way through the song, my amp begins emitting a horrendously loud buzzing sound. I can only compare it to when an amp is on a high gain channel, turned up loud, and someone has a cable plugged in but no guitar and is shorting the cable. Constant loud AAARRRGGGGGGGGGGG sound. Turned off the effects loop, and the sound went away. Turned the effects loop back on, sound came back. Turned off effect on Timebender (left pedal) and the sound went away. Re-engaged the reverse delay with the left pedal, effect worked with no buzz.
Weird. And embarrassing! I think there must be something wrong with the pedal. I'll contact Digitech and see what they can tell me.
Yes, that's what I thought too. Too weird of a problem to pass of as something else than the actual pedal. Your's is a "dud". Friday afternoon assembly. Leave it back and let them have that fixed immediately. Warranty is still valid, becuase the pedal ain't been out that long.
The EP1-l6 by MISSION ENGINEERING is just about the only "expression pedal" I've ever heard of with a MONO output. It's specifically made for Line6 products which takes mono inputs as a control pedal.
Maybe this would work with TimeBender too? I think it could be added to my list above. Mission Engineering has a lot to offer though, and specialises in Volume/Expression pedals, and aren't boutique or extortionally expensive anyway. They're quite new though, so that's probably why I missed them in the first place.
"I talked to the engineer at Harman and he advised that the expression pedal for the Timebender should be TS (MONO), with a 250KOhm to 500KOhm range. He said they tested with an Ernie Ball VP Jr.
We don’t have a standard Mission expression pedal with this configuration. The closest would be the Mission EP1-TC which has a 470KOhm potentiometer and a stereo (TRS) connection or the Mission VM-1 volume pedal which uses the same pot.
I e it had to be James from Mission Engineering who had to phone techs at Harman/digitech up to get this info. My repeated mails to DigiTech support forum didn't helpt at all.
Finally tried active MORLEY volume pedals with both linear pot (Steve Vai model) and the one with regular audio taper, Volume plus. DOESN'T WORK with TimeBender at all. It just whacks the millisecond a tiny bit and then... nothing. However, as a regular volume pedals .. they are ... well... SWELL (pardon the pun!).
So yo can write them off from the list.
But I wasn't as far out as I thought from the beginnig. Real TRS expression pedals do not work properly, or not just as well as regular TS volume pedals. Seems that we are stuck with Ernie Ball. My list above still seem valid regarding expression pedals with TRS plugs.
Just a heads up on expression pedal usage. I took a chance and picked up a Yamaha FC7 Expression pedal and it works fine. You don't have to have a volume pedal with a mono jack (the FC7 has a stereo jack). It has a rather large footprint and the throw isn't ideal...the toe down values are hit with about a quarter of travel left, but due to the wide sweep of the pedal and its ability to hold position its very easy to "dial" in the points between heel and toe. Best of all...AMS has them for $35 and Guitar Center stocks them and will price match!
To the disappointing part...I was under the impression that you could use different types of delay in the heel and toe positions but that doesn't appear to be the case. Also, I believe the mix level affects both heel and toe positions. Need to mess with it some more but it appears the addition of the expression pedal isn't going to be quite as cool as I'd hoped...
Hi Will - glad to hear the yamaha FC7 is working for you. You are right that you can't change delay type with the EP, but I don't understand what you mean about the mix. The EP does control the mix level so you can have a different setting in the heel and toe. Is that not what you wanted?
Sorry for not doing that first time.
Hi and thanks a lot for your reply!
The setup is pretty simple- egnater renegade
head into egnater tourmaster 2x12 cab.
Sometimes digitech hardwire reverb after
timebender (all in the loop). Tried timebender
in peavey jsx 100 as well - the same result.
I really like what this pedal is capable of, but
because of the volume issue cannot enjoy
its features at full. Maybe a booster can help?
Although not sure if it helps with the repeats.
Thans in advance!
The setup is simple - egnater renegade head into egnater tourmaster 2x12 cab.
Timebender goes into effects loop plus sometimes I use hardwire reverb after it in the loop as well.
I used to try timebender in the same configuration into peavey jsx 100W - the result was identocal. It's a pity I can't use timebender at full due to this volume issue.
I thought maybe a booster could help, but not sure it could help with the repeats...
Hi Ash, I have used the timebender in the effects loop of my Vox AC30 and it works very well so I am a bit confused. The timebender is a unity gain pedal meaning that if you turn the mix knob up to just before the dry off position, the repeats should be at the same level as the input (at least the first one since they will decay based on the setting of the repeats knob). So I think i need to ask a few more questions to figure this out.
1. Do you find both the dry guitar and the repeats too low when using it in the loop, or is it just the repeats that are too low?
2. Do you find this to be a problem when you use the timebender in front of the amp (ie. before the input to the amp rather than in the effects loop)
3. Do you find this problem for all modes and harmony voicings, or is it specific to a certain setting?
2. in front of the amp repeats a bit louder, but still don't match the level of the starting note.
3. When in front of the amp only envelope feature seems to be ok, other - the same low volume.
The thing is that the repeats are a bit louder in front of the amp when the attack on the first note is stronger - but unfortunately this is not the option for me because of my style of playing and the nature of my music - I simply cannot hit the strings hard all the time to get a bit louder repeat.
On some settings first repeat is also ok, but the other ones still low.
I have experienced the same problem with the MXR Carbon Copy delay when used it with Randall 50w combo.
Maybe this is because insufficient power? but I use digitech power adapter and it seems to be ok... Cables? no, they aren't many and they are also ok..
OK something really seems wrong then. If I set my unit as follows
1. Mono in/ mono out
2. Mix knob: max (ie just before dry off)
3. Repeats: min
4. pattern: 1 (ie simple repeat)
5. Voicing: U (unison)
6. Mode: Digital
7. Tone: center detent
8. delay: 0.5
9. multiplier: quarter note
10. mod: off
Then I get a single repeat at exactly the same level as my input both in front of the amp and when used in the effects loop. If you do not get the same thing, then i think there must be something wrong with your unit.
I'm not sure if I have the same problem, but at times I do wish the repeats can be louder. I mean I do think the repeats reach unity gain, but it still doesn't take much to drown them with the original signal in some instances, like the Ballerina setting.
It's the only thing I have that's close to a gripe against this really awesome delay pedal. I got mine early this year and it hasn't been taked off my pedalboard since.
Got a TimeBender from my wife for Christmas. Not exactly what I was thinking I was wanting, but very neat pedal. A bit of advice will help me a lot, though. This is actually my first pedal, and I play primily acoustic. I was had in mind a rather simple chorus/reverb style combo pedal, and my wife got advice that this would be better. It does do more - but I'm also trying to get it to do a rather simpler but adequate chorus effect. So I'm trying to be happy with what she got me, as I think you can appreciate.
So here's the question #1: Is there a good combo of settings that would simulate a pleasant, though not necessarily "great" chorus effect? I'm playing a bit with the Memory 2 (Octave Bounce/Wash) and wondering what adjustments might do what, if that makes sense.
And question #2: Likewise, a simulation for "reverb" for room size.
Leading to question #3: With all that the TimeBender can do, can these be combined?
Thanks, from the hopeful hubby ...
Thanks for the question and congrats on getting this cool pedal. As you may have figured out already, you can search for chorus effects on the site by clicking Audio Clips and Chorus on the right and then the search button. Unfortunately, there is only on example right now, which you have already found. But in fact the time bender is a pretty powerful chorus machine with more control than most chorus pedals. If you use digital mode with a single tap, then the modulation knob will control both the rate and depth of the chorus (Note that there are only 3 rates which is a bit limiting, but with an expression pedal you can set the modulation rate to any value between the min and the max), while the delay knob controls how far back the chorus is happening (most chorus pedals don't let you control this), which is typically between 20 and 30 ms. You then control the amount of chorus you want with the mix knob. Once you get that dialed in, then you can start to experiment with alternative chorus sounds by changing the number of taps, repeats and delay mode.
Also, the reverb type sounds can be searched by choosing Audio Clips and Ambient on the right. There are several examples here but not all of them would be considered reverb type sounds. The timebender is not really a reverb processor, but as you can hear, you can create sounds that are similar to reverb processors.
After saying all this, if chorus and reverb are the only sounds you are looking for, then the timebender might be a bit overkill for you. The timebender does so much more that I would hope you would experiment a bit with all the other sounds. I have used it with an acoustic quite a lot and I think it can be used quite effectively.
I have the same problem when using the FX loop on my Elmwood amp. Which runs through a TimeBender and a regular reverb pedal (TC). The length of the cables to and from the effects send/return does matter a great deal. Changed them out to shorter and thick ones and then it sounded a lot better.
Thats' one thing I miss with the TimeBender. The MIX button isn't 50/50 level when it hits 12 a clock. Such other things, such as the TONE button is un-eq and flat when in 12 a clock position. Also when turning the mix knob towards three a clock, it's ALMOST 50 % wet and 50 % dry and then it goes - all of a sudden - over til DIRECT OFF. I e there's no possibility to have the echoed/delayed/wet signal LOUDER than the direct. Just equal or lower. This MAY provide problems when running through a loop. Make sure that you have matched impedance in and outs on the amps send/return. Otherwise any pedal can provide too low or too noisy output. Good cables are also crucial. I changed mine out to shorter ones so I had to leave the pedals on top of the amp. A few inches long. Then it all came back. Volume, high end, punch and dynamics.
Also, the MODE button is crucial. If you have it on DIGITAL it should be the most clear and loudest feedback response. If set on Analog, the actual volume seems to drop a bit, as well as frequencey resolution and each consecutive repeat will be significantly lower.
Since you said, that if you'd put the timebender in front of the amp, the repeats are automatically louder. That seems to be either a a) cabling issue, too long, to bad b) impedance issue, i e that you timbender input/output doesn't match the send/return of your amp.
My amp, a Elmwood Stinger, does have a separate back volume just for the FX send return to overcome these difficulties. Try reverse the order of reverb and timebender. This impose a limitation on sound, not advisable, but having YOUR reverb before timebender delay may resolve your loudness/volume problems.
You know, all these input impedance can be +4db for professionals, or -10db for consumer, or even -20db. If you have pedals of different values they can wreak havoc on your signal. These are often not exchangeable or adjustable at all.
My disadvantage, is that I have to run the pedals lying on top of the amp, i e it was a short cable that solved my problems. But the sound came back perfect. And as I usually don't change reverb or even delay between numbers, and I use the Footswitch to switch between TimeBenders delay programs, I don't mind having both pedals on top of the amp. The FS is on the floor so I can anyway switch between programs. I can't do the tap/strum tempo though.
Your Egnater Head manual has the following to say about its send return loop, and comes across as that it is rather picky with effects and pedals in the loop. This is an outtake from your amps manual:
"... This puts some special demands on the effects unit. First it must be essentially transparent, meaning at can’t mess with your tone. Second, the input and output levels (if there are any) must be properly set for lowest noise and maximum headroom. Proper setting of these controls can be achieved using the following method:
a) Set your amp/preamp volume levels for normal playing levels. Connect a high quality shielded cable from the series send jack to the effect input.
b) Adjust the effects unit input level to “just peak” while playing your most aggressive licks.
c) Now connect another high quality shielded cable from the effect output to the return jack.
d) Adjust the effects unit output level to match the volume you heard before connecting the return cable. You can check this by pulling the cable in and out of the return jack while playing and verifying there is no substantial volume difference. This is called “unity gain”.
If your effects gadget does not have level controls, it can be assumed
you will get unity gain when plugged in.
"NOTE: Depending on how loud you play, the level at the loop may be higher than normal guitar level. Though many floor type and tabletop effects may work, some may tend to overload. You will know an effect is not made for higher levels if, when you plug it the effect into the loop, you notice distortion and/or a loss of volume. Most modern effects (including many pedals) can operate just fine in an effects loop. We have gone to great lengths to make the Renegade loop compatible with as many different effects gadgets as possible. Of course, you still may occasionally encounter a device that simply won’t work properly in a loop.
This is one of the reasons we discourage players from using pedals in a loop.
You just spent a considerable amount of your hard earned dollars to get this awesome sounding amp. Sticking a mediocre pedal in the loop of your amp seems to be “counter-tone”. Remember what we said about the effect
being transparent. Most pedals color your sound and not always in a good way"
Well then. As it said in the manual about your Egnater Renegade amp (they're very good BTW!) Send/Return idiosyncrasies, and not only that, it applies to most amps FX send return. Not only Egnaters. Some pedals work, some don't, and most pedals somewhere in between. So and so. Most professionals I know of, if they have to run LOTS of pedals of different types in a loop, buys a buffer amp prior to the pedalboard and one after the pedalbord. Then it behaves the same all the way through.
The Dunlop DVP1 may work just as well as any other volume pedal. I e while pressing it down, it doesn't happen anything at the first bit, but it - sort of - catches on, later on, during the pedals travel. Just like all the others. The Dunlop DVP1 Volume will work just as good or bad as any other VOLUME pedal. To 95 % which most of all other volume pedals works too. If this is a nuisance to you or not, only you yourself can decide. To me, I am a bit more picky. I want 100 %.
I am trying to find an old volume pedal and change out the vol pot to a linear one, and one of those that doesn't have a to do a full turn to reach maximum. A pot from Bourns or something like that. They do have "half turns" pots with ceramic or plastic conductive material, which means they won't scratch ever, and have to be changed out. Bloody expensive are they though.
Also The Dunlop DVP1 Volume pedal has dependent impedance travel depending on toe or heel. On heel the impedance is < 5 Ohm and on toe (full) it's 250 KOhm, so this is why Timebender reacts to it ... after a while. When it reaches the range, in within Timebender works. As with all pedals really. Also, the pot is usually an audio taper, which means it is logarithmic.
As for the Yamaha EP that someone used above with great results. Well he said "The throw isn't ideal...". But I want it to be ideal. I tried another Yamaha and Expression pedals and they just don't work, and I can't see why I should plug in stereo jack into a mono input as the "expression" input is at the TimeBender.
Still hunting for the PERFECT Expression/Volume Pedal!
I have a Goodrich L120 in the line, (i e someone is up for selling , but haven't returned) and I am trying to experiment with that one, changing pots out and so on. Will return if I buy that one.
ONE THING ABOUT 3RD PARTY POWER SUPPLIES FOR TIMEBENDER:
First rule: Always use the adapter that came with it. Period.
Numerous companies have told me by now, through mail and otherwise, that "their" power supply will work with alright with TimeBender. Although it says 1400mA or 1300mA it just runs at below 1000mA. Actually, about 800mA since its power consumption is 7 w. This is a lot. But:
If you run it with a powerful 3rd party power supply, such as Voodo Labs, Cioks, Burkey Flatliner, or similar, you MAY get it to run, but only at a minimum of features! People will forget, that if you connect an expression pedal, and a footswitch to it, AND full connections Stereo input/output to the TimeBender THE CURRENT LOAD raises, and it may not be sufficient with what you got. Also it can be impossible to use the expression/volume pedal since the travel and according changes put demands on the current power supply. Also, to just START UP the TimeBender may require some kind of boost in the mA section to get it up and running. So beware of anyone telling you that anything below 1300mA will be sufficient!
I've tried it and it doesn't work. Always ask to try it out first with YOUR TimeBender pedal, and connect as many wires, footswitches, expression pedals as possible to it. I e make it boot up, with all connections connected, no empty hole at the back!
Just for the army of people looking for an expression pedal that works with the timbender: I recently experiment with a cheap Zoom FP02 Expression Pedal. It´s actually an expression pedal, not a volume pedal, and is supposed to work only with crappy Zoom multi-effects. I decided to try it and to my surprise, it works perfectly with the timedender.
Sure, it´s cheap and plastic and the pedal travel is kinda short, but being an expression pedal it works all along that travel, so the sound doesn´t change suddenly, you can get a cool mix. So, yoou can add an expression pedal that really works to the list!
Ola amigo Gabriel!
Your english is better than some englishmen/americans I've read. Do not need to apologize. I am from Sweden and I have poor english to if you really nit picking and get serious about it. I think most people will get it anyway. Thanks for the heads up on the ZOOM expressionpedal. Let's add that to the list.
You can set it to 10 ms so essentially inaudible delay. I do this all the time and use it as a harmony processor and/or pitch shifter. You can also just set it to looper and use the voicing feature to create shifts. This is what I usually do if I want to do an octave down bass simulation.
The Dunlop DVP1 Volume pedal has - acutally - slowly turned up as a viable option, really. In a special review - they are starting to show up now - they revealed that Dunlop has a plan to offer swappable pots - allowing conversion into an expression pedal, for example, or using it as a low impedance 25 Kohm pedal for keyboards, or anything in between. Which started to wet my appetite for this unit. Beware, this beast is the largest volume pedal I've seen, and heaviest! Built to last, and have great travel.
Not that pricey either. 99 USD Street.
But I think it better be easy to service. Especially swapping pots out and the metal band drive assembly. It has a pedal throw of 2 inches which is huge.
If its' possible to swap out the pot for a non audio taper, but linear instead, there's no "jumping in" where the TimeBender starts to detect the 100 Kohm range. And there's no logaritmic jump at the end of the travel. Which makes it a modifier geeks dream...
Can I ask for a favor from everyone owning a TimeBender around here, if you've got the same problem? Try this with your pedal:
1. Set delay mode to DIGITAL
2. Repeats to a quite a few, say 12 a clock.
3. Delay Time to antyhing between 900-1200 ms
4. PATTERN knob to the second pattern, just above the single one.
5. VOICING at U
6. Mix at precisely ABOVE direct off, somewhere 3 a clockish.
7. Make sure you connect a STEREO output and connect it hard L and R.
8. Play into the delay, something of a cool short staccato riff that repeats WITH the rhythm created from the delay pattern. Play in time with it.
9. Now, the most important, PRESS the left footswitch and HOLD it so the LED turns yellow! Now, you've frozen the loop, and you do a HOLD on the repeat so it repeats infinitely. You don't need to press down at a certain point in the loop, say in time with the tempo led. Just press and hold. You can play on top of it now, without entering anything into the loop again.
10. Listen to the loop pass by, and listen to what happens to it after say - 45 seconds, or one minute.... is there something happening?
Mine drifts significantly out of time tempo, and it starts to JINX the loop point, from which it is held. Now, if I pressed the footswitch at the "wrong point" it would sound and repeat out of sync directly, from the start on. But this doesn't matter. The loop changes after a while, and if you have patience and stamina to keep hearing it through, say 4-5 minutes, you'll hear that the whole pattern have changed and are not in tempo or any sync anymore. It drifts, if ever so slowly. This can be done in any PATTERN but the first one. The first one, used for regular single delays, works perfectly and does not drift at all, no matter how long it's run.
11. Check what the display says initially when just powering up the DigiTech Timebender. It shows just a second or two. What number does it display? My display's 1.0. What does yours display?
If you could take time to carry that one out for me, and report your results here I would be grateful. I've provided you with some information valid for you at least, so this is what I ask for - politely - in return. No hurry, though.
I have just purchased the time bender pedal and bought it because I saw the videos you had of michael dowdle demoing it. After I bought it I noticed that you have taken down his video clips and I can't find them anywhere. He really shows, musically, what you can do with this pedal and also shows you the presets that he is using! Can you please put those back on your web sites. This pedal is confusing enough and it helps to have someone as great as Michael Dowdle explaining the possibilities! Please, I beg you....put those videos back on!!! Sincerely, mark
Dunlop DVP-1 finally became it. The one that I now use. BUT! I had to solder and fix a dummy plug at the input jack at the volume, so it acts as a load. Then the travel is smooth, and starts to "move" from the start on. However, it stays in any position more rigidly than any other pedal I've tried. On top of this, I think this is just one of the very few pedals that you have to do this workaround on, for it to work.
But verdict: The Dunlop DVP-1 works very well, if not extremely well, if a dummy input plug is inserted at the input jack.
Still no one dares to, or have sorted out if the expression jack at the TimeBender, is really a stereo jack or a mono jack or both! I've found differences in different manual versions of the unit. Ok, at the end of the specifications it sure says "specifications are about to change without notice", so one can't be 100 percent sure of anything really. Who knows, all of a sudden they've turned it to a reverb unit instead.
Hi all. After watching hours of demos I finally got a Timebender and so far it is awesome. The things it can do just blow me away. Anyway, I think I may have the same problem as Mats Eriksson regarding powering it from alternative sources. I am just trying to tidy up my pedal board and lose some warts.
In order for me to power some of my pedals - BBE Sonic Stomp - I have had to double the current draw (not touching the voltage) of isolated inputs in order to push it to 200mA. I have found a Cioks AC10 which has the option of 2 isolated 9VAC at 800mA. Using a current double cable, pushing it to 1600mA, it should easily power the Timebender and then some (I suppose if you wanted to daisy it off the doubler).
Just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this? I have emailed Cioks and am just waiting for their reply.
You should get a reply from Cioks, they answered mine within two days. They're as good as it gets. Also the red ones from http://www.pedalgear.net/ JUICEBOX will be sufficient. ALbeit a tad expensive maybe.
To Scott. At the beginning of Serene it almost sounds like a GUITAR RIG 3 or 4 patch, with these reverse delays. He may switch to TimeBender later on, though.
He uses a lot of reverb to this very ambient and cool piece. I haven't read that he used a TimeBender Delay, but he may very well have. I don't think one can nail that patch in TB. On GR3 or 4 (software modeller program) it's very easy to nail.
Hi Shaman - Yeah I know what you mean. The pitch shifting only works for a purely monophonic signal. If there is another note ringing out, it does not sound good at all. That is one of my biggest beefs.
"The On LED will turn green and the loop will immediately begin to play back at the
current mix level. The TimeBender
automatically adjusts the starting and ending
loop points to match them as closely as possible. This makes it extremely easy to get
smoothly transitioning loops on the first try."
i have the timebender but when i use the loop, the sound doesnt continue.
when i record some stuff around 12 seconds, and press play, after finish the 12 seconds the sound be mute and then still play from the beginning after 1 or 2 seconds.. how can i get the continuos sound of the looper without this pause?
Hi Aaron - I'm not sure if I totally understand what the problem is. The correction specified in the manual only corrects for small differences in (~100 ms or so) between the optimal loop end point and when you press the footswitch. So you still have to hit it pretty close to where you want the loop to end. Are you doing this? I make loops by pressing the footswitch right on beat one (usually a down strum - don't worry it won't cut off the start of the strum), and then where I want to end the loop, I usually play the 1st beat again and hit the footswitch at the same time. I find the timebender produces really good loops this way.
Hi all, I just got my TB and so far I am just blown away. Very interested in expanding it with an expression and footswitch. Thanks for all the testing and documentation you guys have already done. I almost bought just any expression pedal, but now I see that this would have been a mistake.
Tested a Zoom FP02 and got uncertain results. I saw someone else had success with one of these, but I didn't. Could be just broken (I pulled it out of a box of music junk). I will mess with it some more tonight, and hopefully return with more info.
I also tested a St. Louis Stage Gear volume pedal (SGVP2 - 100K linear potentiometer) which worked ALMOST perfectly. The heel position returns precisely every time to the value I set, but the toe position was a little shaky. I set it to 2.000 and it kept returning to 1.950-1.990 with no consistent final value.
You can add that to your list of pedals that ALMOST work.
It seems like volume pedals are the way to go, but I need to be able to get consistent and precise values at both the heel and toe positions. I would also like to choose a pedal that will stay put when I take my foot off of it (the one I have drifts away from the heel position). If anyone has found a pedal that fits these requirements, I would appreciate any suggestions.
Still no joy with the FP02 but that thing is a POS anyways. Feels like I'm going to break it when I step on it (or maybe I already did at some point). The search for the right expression pedal is still ongoing.
I would like to introduce the question of MIDI sync. How effing sweet would that be? I mentioned this to Digitech in the hope that they MIGHT incorporate it into a future version. In the meantime, if anyone has any ideas on how to MacGuyver this bad boy to send a clock signal to Ableton Live or some other such thing, out with it!
I have one idea. I can't wait to get home and try it. Here it is:
I may not be able to use the TB to SEND clock sync, but it CAN receive it. Not via MIDI, mind you, but via audio, using the strum-tempo option that's already built in.
It's not a perfect solution but it could work. I could have Ableton generate a metronome click, mix it into the TB input, and hold the tempo button whenever I want to set it. I imagine this should be fairly accurate!
Whenever I set or change my tempo in Live (using a separate footswitch) I can apply that same tempo to the TB in just a few seconds. The question now is how to construct the switch so as to do this as smoothly as possible, without hearing the metronome click all the time...
I want to use my expression pedal to control delay mix only. And I'd like to use the right pedal for tap tempo. What I want is to be able to set the tempo (using the right pedal) with the expression pedal down (so there is little to no effect), so that when I kick the expression pedal up, the delay time is already set. What happens, though, is, when I move the expression pedal, the tempo I set by tapping the right footswitch CHANGES, so my tapped tempo is irrelevant. Surely I can accomplish this?
Update - in case anyone's interested - my idea to set tempo on the TB using Ableton's click-track did NOT work. It seems to recognize it as a note, not a muted strum. Also, if I set the pattern to STRUM, it seems to be hearing the clicks, but it is never able to set a pattern from it (display reads "????").
That's ok because this would not have been an acceptable solution, anyways. I want MIDI sync. I have dispatched an email to Molten Voltage, who specialize in building MIDI controllers for the Whammy. Maybe they can mod my TB for me.
TO Joshua: I am still achieving great results with a volume pedal as controlling the TB expressions. The Dunlop DVP-1 works very well, if not extremely well, if a dummy input plug is inserted at the input jack. It stays in the exact positions all of the time, at both heel and toe positions. Exactly, and no extreme jumps or slowing down during the travel. I've even used it for live syncing with live drummers. If they're a bit of a can stop the pedal midway and then use a little more milliseconds of dealy or less depending on the drummers tempo fluctuations. However, one has to set heel and toe values pretty close to each other, within plus minus 20 BPM, or something like that. Also, one can only use digital delays since the analog ones produces sweeping time and pitch shifts which doesn't really gel well, when using chasing the tempo!
This Pedal is also useful for your timing and sync problems. But then you have to reverse it and use it as a volume pedal only. It could double as both, in case you don't mind moving it around. I e you only need to move the cables around.
That volume pedal has a TUNER OUT that lets the signal go through the pedal. So when you have the pedal up (heel position) the signal goes through the tuner out ONLY. Without going through to the amp output jack. Let that one go into the TimeBender when using the STRUM pattern. Then, you can close or mute the click at the Ableton end, and then press down the pedal and let any signal - guitar - go through it. I think you must have some double inputs anyway (footswitch) at the front end, one from the guitar, and one from Ableton, and switch between them. The volume pedal acts like some sort of switch anyway, only that they've traded a regular firm footswitch out with the actual pedal.
The crux of the biscuit is, that you have to fiddle around after you've set the sync, and plug in another cable again, to start to use it as an expression pedal once more, and that may whack some things out, since TB says you have to plug in to exp jack during power down. So you may need TWO Dunlop DVP-1s!!
Hi, I just bought my Timebender a couple weeks ago to replace a Nova ND-1 with it.
The features and the built in looper sold me on it.
The first odd thing I've noticed about the pedal versus other delay's I've owned is that the repeats cut off fairly quickly after you turn the effect off (DELAY ON/OFF). On all the other delay pedals I've owned, if you have the repeats turned up pretty high, after you turn off the effect the repeats will trail off the same as if you just played one note and muted your strings with the effect still on. Why does the Timebender roll off the repeats so quickly after turning off the pedal? Is mine defective?
I did some experiments hooking up potentiometers to the Timebender expression pedal input and using them to vary the delay time. Hopefully the results will be useful to you.
First I tried connecting the pots to a mono cable:
100K linear taper pot - Worked perfectly. Even transition from min to max value
10K linear taper pot - unstable behavior
100k audio taper pot - Worked, but did nothing for part of the rotation
100K linear taper pot - Worked perfectly. Even transition from min to max value
10K linear taper pot - Also worked perfectly.
100k audio taper pot - Worked, but did nothing for part of the rotation
Based on these tests I would expect that the Moog EP-2, Roland EV-5, M-Audio EX-P, and other expression pedals wired as described in the Strymon article would work very well. I would also expect that most volume pedals (which I believe typically use audio taper pots) would be unresponsive for part of their range.
Note: I only tested varying the delay time. It's possible that for other parameters audio taper potentiometers might have the more desirable behavior.
Steve, you can set trail off on the TB, when I press the button for bypass, even at 5000 ms it takes a while for it to trail off. However, the trail off isn't anywhere near ANY settings you have done with the REPEAT button. See, if that repeat button would be set to near self-oscillation feedback, it would be quite cool to have it going on when stepping on the bypass, and continue playing without entering any new signal into the delay. But this one "fades" it out within 3-4 repeats which may be a compromise for more musical things than phsycedelic effects. I e it doesn't stop abruptly, but fades away in a fashion that it doens't clutter up the next parts you're playing on guitar or whatever instrument. I would sometimes like it to have that abrupt stop. When in a band, a song ending should be a so called DEAD STOP, with just a slight reverb tail. Then it's quite dim to have a overspill on the delay, it destroys the effect completely. Sometimes. I do think that it's 50 / 50 that I want a trailing delay, or a total killswitch. Now, with the expression pedal which is almost exclusively used as a MIX, When in heel position, it's completely mixed down, so only dry signal goes through, and on toe position both repeats and mix are almost at max.
Another thing, about the led dot blinking all of the time. I GAFFA TAPED IT and it's a grey shady light just shining through it. Much more comfortable. When using short delays at 15 ms, that bloody thing could give you an epileptic seizure for less. It must be the only thing on earth - apart from the Chinese Wall - that is visible from the moon!
Hi again, thanks for the response Mats. I gave up on my experiment trying to sync the TB with Ableton - maybe someday they will put MIDI ports in it, but until then, the Eventide Timefactor and Pitchfactor will remain the supreme livetronica delays on the market. (The Pitchfactor is going to be my next purchase BTW - its got some functions similar to the TB, but will not replace it - I plan to use both).
I have been getting pretty good with the tap-tempo when working with a drummer, and when doing my solo electro stuff, I simply dial in the correct BPM. Works for me!
I would like to give the DVP-1 a shot but they are a bit pricey! I may have to just bite the bullet though, since nothing else seems to be giving me exact values.
@ Mark Hecht: I actually tested the M-Audio EX-P last night. It has a polarity (?) switch on the bottom and I tried it both ways. I also tried adjusting the trim knob. I got fairly decent results, basically it works similarly to my other volume pedal but has a similar problem. Where my volume pedal works on the heel position but will not return to its exact toe position, the EX-P works on the toe position but will not return to its exact heel position.
For example, using EX-P, I set toe position to 100 ms and heel to 70 ms. Rocking back and forth a few times, the max and min values look something like this:
It will not go to 70.
I still need an expression pedal that's going to return to the position I set, precisely, on both heel and toe positions. Hopefully that Dunlop will do the job. I really wish Digitech would just produce their own expression pedal, or release some specific recommendations (name names!). They recommend "passive, T/S, between 100 and 500 Kohm" --- but my St. Louis volume pedal meets those requirements and does not work.
@ Joshua: I did not notice that problem with the extreme positions in my tests with potentiometers. It may be that the inaccuracy is due to the mechanical design of the pedals.
Unless I was in a recording studio using the pedal to control volume (and getting some sound instead of none at the heel position) I doubt I would notice the inaccuracy. I'm not sure I would notice a 2.5 millisecond difference in delay time either, but your mileage may vary
@ Mark, I actually considered that my volume pedal needed to be regeared... I was able to solve my earlier problem of it drifting out of heel position by simply moving the teeth by 1 or 2 notches and creating a "dead zone" towards the heal.
But while I had it apart, I tried turning the pot by hand just to make sure it wasn't a mechanical issue preventing the pedal sweep from using the full range, but that didn't help. Seems like the signal its sending just never reaches its supposed max value. Maybe I should just buy a new potentiometer and replace the one currently in my volume pedal...
2.5 milliseconds only matters to me in certain instances, in fact its not an issue at all the majority of the time (I use tap-tempo when playing with a drummer and rarely if EVER use the exp. pedal to control delay times). My volume pedal, despite its inaccuracy, still works perfectly fine on voicing, feedback, multipliers, patterns, and mix parameters. But sometimes I do solo stuff with midi sync and computers and looping which requires absolute precision, so my quest must continue!
I must admit too that the challenge of making something work the way I want it to, is half the fun.
I'm thinking about getting this pedal. I'm wondering what the delay rate range is on this pedal, or more so how low does it go? Will it go all the way to 0ms? Also what is the max range of adjustment that can be assigned to an expression pedal?
I have a boss delay pedal, I use with my bass, that has a 400ms-0ms setting and if I adjust the dial with my toe while I'm playing I get a really neat effect if I keep it around 200ms and 0ms.
But playing with my toe isn't easy in a live setting and I have yet to find a delay pedal that has an expression option that can go as low as 0ms and has a decent range above that.
Hi Andy - It doesn't go all the way to 0 ms, but it does go very low (down to 10 ms). It can go up to a max of 5 seconds, so there is quite a range. You can set the expression pedal to control the delay between any 2 values you want, which is a great feature IMO. There is a video on this site on how to use the expression pedal with the timebender. It shows how easy it is to do.
Any chance you can give the pedal a try before you buy it? I think you will like it, but it is always better to try it first if you can.
Thanks Mark Hecht for trying this potentiometer things out! VERY USEFUL INFO! All in all, I think it's a mechanical construction thing with some pedals doesn't give exact readings all of the time.
The DVP-1 IS pricey but it stays put. 2.5 milliseconds is not detectable when using delays, but say if you use pitch shifter, on musiQ, with settings one octave below and above, it's a quite obvious a bummer if the heel position don't reach 12 semitones up, and stays at - say - 11 when on toe position, and of course vice versa.
Say, still after all this time, even the Strymon TimeLine doesn't quite match up to Timebender save for the amount of programmable preset slots. The max delay time is 2.5 seconds on the Strymon, and I've tried it, but naaahh... sometimes I want these long loops to create ambient stuff over 5-8 seconds repeat. 5 seconds are enough to loop certain things, that goes over a few bars.
Matt, that damm blue thing LED LIGHT won't turn off. I gaffa taped it! When using a short time delay, that thing can get you a epileptic seizure for less. You don't need that one really. I've never ever being able to cue up to it - or any other led - anyway. Not even any drummer.
STRYMON TIMELINE. I've had it now for a couple of weeks (borrowed it from a friend on vacation), and has had plenty of time to go through it in all aspects and see what it does.
For now, there's absolutely NO REASON to swap the DigiTech Timbender out for a Strymon TimeLine. While it can do a lot, and more things that Timebender, it is very unwieldy to handle and manage it in a live situation. Even with an expression pedal on. But in most cases, or really - more often than not - you have to SIT DOWN and be able to foot step on TWO switches at once to progress programmed presets or do a loop hold. Also, the chorus area, say, the milliseconds are rather limited, which means lowest range are 60 ms or 80 ms on some algorithms and max is 2500 ms. You can loop with delays on, however. Which means you can have delay as a metronome for you. But the GUI is unwieldy and takes a lot of understanding and "step-through" to get. Not as inituitive as TB. 2,5 seconds ain't enough for proper "looper" riffs and licks.
It sounds stellar though, in all settings, and chorusing and flanging can be done. BUT! Take notice people, not by any stretch replacing or leaving the TB behind in the dust. Speaking of "phsycedelic" settings I think, TB does it better. Strymon TimeLine verdict: Nice Try... but there's still too many "if only one could..."
The one thing that bothered me most with Strymon was the Digital Delay Type when it's clean and pure digital. It should NOT waver in pitch when adjusting time, as the TB does. When playing live with a live drummer, I've become accustomed to adjust the delay to the tempo that the drummer does, and on TB there's no whacky out of tunes as you adjsut the time to the tempo. I do that with XP pedal. And people don't notice a change because it's done in digital steps without pitch shift. There's a small click perhaps.. On Strymon, it goes "wooeeeeiiiiii...." up in pitch, destroying whatever key you're playing in.
Not sure if this has been talked about in recent posts but I feel like the overall output level of the delay is low...I want the delay to be as loud as the original signal going into the pedal...any suggestions?
CARL: It has been brought up before. And I agree totally that this is ONE of the few shortcomings of this pedal. It doesn't seem to go even 50 % 50 % dry/wet before it signals D.OFF i e direct off and just delay. However, with all settings but total DIGITAL it should really not be as strong as the direct signal, because if you listen to old analog and tape delays there wasn't that much to do about it either. OK, granted, there wasn't this sudden jump when going from mix to direct off. Just because of this, I see little use in using the rest of the headroom of that button when direct off, no use in pushing that button to the end, and raise the volume even further, because there's no direct signal into it at all anyway. The change could be more gradual.
I do have found some musical examples, mostly experimental effects, where there could very well be a 60 % wet mix and so on. Mostly with flanging, and chorusing stuff. But as for now, there's nothing you can do about it. The only thing that would/could be remotely possible is splitting the dry signal and wet signal into the two ouputs at the back and adjust them at some mixer instead, which makes it useless in a guitar amp. But I don't know how to do that today. I don't think it is possible. But it should be easy ot implement with upgrade of firmware.
Which makes me think that it should be possible on future upgrades.
QUESTION TO ALL: Has anyone of you got any TimeBender pedal which says something OTHER THAN 1.0 in the display window, just when firing it up?
This must be the firmware version. If anyone got something else - especially above that - I want mine upgraded, regardless of what they did to it. Mine starts with 1.0.
Not only that. On the swedish wholesale site, it lists the TimeBender as ...
I don't know if there ever was a TB-1 but there wasn't any TB-2 listed back then when I bought it. Just TB. Typical corporate plot. Not that you get anything of out the language but you catch the headlines and picture:
Thanks Steve. Now I've pried deep into this. Wonder what the 1.2 does? If anything. I contacted the wholesale agent in Sweden, Englund music, which guided me to the music store instead. Enough of this, they contacted Englund again (sic) and reported back that if I want to change the firmware version out (which isn't a firmware) I have to change two chips inside it, which I can't do, and must be done by them. Take a deep breath now folks... here's the price they charge converted from swedish currency to USD:
They charge for this. Almost one hundred MORE THAN A BRAND NEW PEDAL!!!! They have to order it from the us (special order) and then I have to send it up to Englund in Stockholm Sweden, and then they have to change them out. They'd better change the total loop time to 60 seconds, and max delay time to at least 10 seconds, and be able to loop with delays too, if I am going to pay such amounts for it. So Steve Kennedy, consider yourself something of a lucky bastard, and everyone else too, who bought the TB recently.
Matt and Carl I'm with you on this. The mix adjustment is a major disappointment on this pedal. It would be SO MUCH BETTER if you could adjust the repeats to be louder than the dry signal before going full wet. I really hope this gets fixed. Seems like such a strange over site.
I just bought the TimeBender too. I am SO glad I didn't go with any of the others I was considering. With the TimeBender you can explore so much. I'm anxious to try it with a volume/expression pedal and footswitch. This sight is absolutely fantastic. I've already pinned it to my favourites bar.
But I'm now curious about the firmware revision 1.2 that Steve Kennedy mentions. Mine certainly does not have that. Is there a way to upgrade?
And thanks for the great site.
Glenn, I've tried to post my correspondence to Digitech/Swedish wholesaler agent, about this upgrade thing. One have to (at least I) send in the pedal and they have to change out two chips, which must be ordered from USA. The total cost exceeds by far the cost of a brand new pedal. So I jumped on that.
Despite numerous forum questions, and numerous mail to their support - I even registered the new unit there - I have yet to hear a reply of which/what differs version 1.2 from 1.0.
This, with firmware upgrade, is light years better carried out, on the Strymon TimeLine. It's done through midi and download from their site. Especially one thing. AT NO COST: DigiTech really ought to revise their antiqued and old firmware/hardware updates. 199 USD for a chip swap to firmware 1.2?! For f*x sake.
Hi Mats - I asked around to see if I could find out the difference between version 1,0 and version 1.2. Apparently the difference was due to a manufacturing update and does not affect the performance at all. In other words you should notice no difference between a unit with 1.0 compared to a unit with 1.2
Great website, really looking forward to taking a closer look now that I have a new TB to play with. Thanks!
I am curious if anybody knows how to get under the hood and physically mod these things? There are a few features that I would love to see that I cannot seem to figure out - my guess is that they do not and cannot exist, but I want to ask folks who are knowledgeable:
1) No MIDI ports. Bummer. Synching with other devices seems limited to manual audio synch, no clock in feature it seems. Any suggestions for getting at the tempo circuit?
2) External Tap tempo in? Any way to send an external ping in to set the tempo instead of using the pedals tap tempo? I prefer to synch multiple devices with one ping.
3) Effects Loop - would love to be able to send/return signal to other effects and back into the delay/loop like the Electro Harmoinx Deluxe Memory Man. Any thoughts? Has someone tried to mod the available jacks perhaps?
4) Only 4 (ok, presets. Really?! So may cool sounds and I have to change on the fly? This seems like a major limitation for a serious live musician. Any ideas other than buying multiple machines once I win the lottery?
5) Any way to keep the mute command from kicking in when I do strum tempo? Same problem on the TC Nova delay, but not an issue on the old Damage Control Glass Nexus/Timeline, your music does not stop when you set tempo with strum. I guess I need a signal splitter?
Sorry if these questions seem negative or obvious - it is a great machine, but unless the engineers at DT plan on releasing an updated version these are some limitations that keep this thing (for me anyway) from being awesome rather than just really good. THANKS for the great website!!!
Note - seems that in my first post my " 8 )" became an emoticon within item 4 . I realize the 4 presets become 8 by using an expression pedal. Still, that seems awfully low. Any way to do a mod to increase memory?
G. There's a lot of questions. You can't cram in every feature and whishlist. But as I agree with you, there's not much one can do to get it external sync. Provided you ahve a set tempo, the unit that sends out a click, can produce that at a STRUM setting. But then you have to have a switch and splitter at the input, one for any click signal and one line to switch to for regular guitar or instrument. One COULD mod the signal led that annoys me big time. 4 presets seems limiting, but so it is. Note, I have tried the Strymon TimeLine, and the number of presets is just unwieldy. like 200 or something. The one thing I would love is for the TB to KEEP expression pedal settings at the "manual" mode, i e at the default setting, where the sound is exactly like the buttons are set. When you switch from preset 1 back to "manual" mode, you should be able to use expression pedal settings again. But it does not. It is ok for it to lose everything when powering off, but it should keep these settings when movign through presets.
I tried, and thought, and think hard if there were any instance, that I would need the Strum tempo to be heard while I set it. Generally I don't but I do understand that for some people it might make sense.
I used to use those ancient half rack units from BOSS way back in the beginning of the 90's. You could program them and save them on endless patches it seemed. I ended up not needing more than 20-30 that I'll use still today. And that was everything, multi-fx, with way more fx than just delays. Those VF-1, and SE-70. I seem to not need to dabble with delays anymore, but gets more and more involved in "just leave it on" setting or "one reverb/delay setting fits all".
Peculiar no one has mentioned the WISH/ ability to nail exact milliseconds in TB. Today, it has a coarse setting with 5 milliseconds each step. It's graded like that. While some people may think it's not hearable, in 5 ms jumps, but believe me, when using expression pedal to make that sweep, it is clearly heard, those small jumps.
TimeBender: thanks for the research and clarification that the versions doesn't matter at all. Then we all know. But then I think it would be a "hidden from users" treasure or display that can only be reached and of any usefulness to the repairme at DigiTech.
No need for us to worry about 1.0 or 1.2. As fast as it is visible, one starts to wonder whether it is of any significande or not. Especially with bug-fixing software and so on.
Modtone Powerplant has NOW updatet their AC outlet (red) on the side of their box, to work with TB and similar current hungry pedals. It produces 9v AC at 1300 mA with no sweat. And all the other 9v outlets from it can be fully loaded too. It won't affect the AC at all.
I bought a MODTONE POWER SUPPLY and got rid of every wall wart. Works like a charm and no extraneous noise creeping into pedals placed near the unit. Thought I might make a plug for it around here, if anyone's asking.
Ver 1.2 on the chip inside the TimeBender. Some sites labels it as TimeBender 2, which piqued my interest. I jumped when I read it, but TimeBender 2 was nothing new at all. The firmware 1.2 has nothing to do with functions/sounds or so. It seems that TimeBender didn't was succesful enough to produce a version II of it. Which is the way it usually goes.
I am the only one in the world, who thinks the opposite. Why in the world release an upgraded, updated and bettered version of something that was already an instant hit?
i have read thru quite a few posts but cant see any info on my question which is to do with a tails on/off function? I use my unit with a DJ mixer and need the delay to carry on as long as possible and even build after its switched off (the boss Re-20 does this well). The Digitech Hardwire dl-8 will do it but doesnt have the musical delay features of the Timebender.
Hi Joolz - The timebender ramps the delay down when you turn the delay off. It is not immediate, but if you have repeats set high to sustain the delay, then it will increase the decay so that the delay disappears within a couple of seconds. Doesn't sound like what you are looking for.
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